In this interview with BANKOLE TAIWO, a former Ogun State Deputy Governor and one-term Senator representing Ogun East, Adegbenga Kaka, speaks on topical issues ranging from APC’s alleged plans to weaken the opposition party ahead of 2027 elections to governance under President Bola Tinubu in the last two years. Excerpts
There has been a gale of defection into the ruling party, the All Progressives Congress of late and this is said to have been deliberately influenced to weaken the opposition party. As a progressive politician who understands the importance of opposition in having a virile democracy and good governance, are you not worried sir?
I laugh heartily and here is the reason I am taking my time to laugh. There is a saying in Yoruba land that “Agbara ojo ko ni so wipe oun o wole, onile ni ko ni gba fun” meaning that erosion will always try hard to cause a house to collapse. However, it is the owner of the house who will also do all that is within his or her ability not to allow his or her property to be submerged. The truth is that there must be a willing buyer and willing seller for a commodity to exchange hands, so if the opposition members were comfortable with where they were coming from they would have stayed back, and the ruling party would not have been able to influence them in any way. But if they want to partake of the privilege of being a member of the ruling party and they are coming around to join our party, where is the blame for the ruling party here? We have a willing buyer and a willing seller, the defectors are being welcomed into the party, and we are not rejecting them, so, there is no fuss anywhere.
So, the talk of influencing and offering of inducement do not suffice here?
For God’s sake, call it whatever you want, influencing, and diplomacy are parts of the game…and when talking about influencing, it could be done at any level of an organisation. The pyramid of an organisation shows those at the top, those at the middle and those at the base, the grassroots and those at the grassroots can even influence things greater than those at the top..in order words, those coming newly into the party might not necessarily have been influenced by the leadership but by ordinary members. It could even be the driver that will say, ‘Oga, we have been here in this party for so long with nothing to show for it, so if we can’t beat them, why can’t we join them?’ So, it is not right to blame the ruling party even if it is a case of inducement, they have the right to turn it down.
As a progressive, are you not worried that the country is tilting towards a one-party state?
Why should I be worried? A society deserves the leadership it gets. I was in the Alliance for Democracy, it was on the platform of the party that I became the Deputy Governor of Ogun State from 1999 to 2003. The AD later collapsed, no thanks to the influence of the Peoples Democratic Party under former President Olusegun Obasanjo. After AD crumbled, we came to the realisation that historically, no alliance has ever succeeded in achieving desired result, so we opted for the fusion of different political parties..so we had people who were dissatisfied with how the then ruling party, PDP was conducting its affair, the members of the new PDP joining us, those drifting towards ANPP coming on board as well among other splinter groups here and there. So, when AD crumbled, we did not blame the ruling party, we rather went into our boardroom to re-strategise and we began to evolve and transform from Action Congress, to Action Congress of Nigeria and then to the All Progressives Congress and with this we went ahead to defeat the sitting government in 2015. So, it is simple, if the opposition is serious, let them go back to the drawing board but if not let them throw in the trowel and accept complete defeat.
Won’t democracy be endangered without the opposition?
We have China today, they were once like us in Nigeria a few years back but suddenly as a one-party state, they became so disciplined and the country has continued to grow beyond leaps and bounds and is now a force to be reckoned with socially, economically and even politically. They are even overtaking the major democracies of the world…so, if that is what Nigeria want what is my problem? However, we have been advocating for more accountability, trust and fewer representatives. If the Presidential system of government is alien to us and can no longer serve our purposes, we have tried the parliamentary system of government briefly, we might think of going back there, it could be one party, it could be parliamentary, it could even be monarchical or whatever as long as it is in line with what the people say they want.
Are you also by extension saying that our presidential system of government is not working for the country?
If you look at some of the countries from which our country adopted the presidential system of government, some areas are working for them while some are not working and the attempts to fine-tune these areas have failed. So, if we feel that the current presidential system is not satisfying our needs, we are duty-bound to try other systems of government to maximise our resources and get the best for the people.
Are you by this submission urging for restructuring?
That is not news; it’s a call that had been on for quite some time. We have pleaded regionalism, and we have equally preached total restructuring that will cut across all segments of our national life, the civil and public service. If we do it well and wholeheartedly we shall get the result that is desirable but if we do it haphazardly, we won’t get anything.
With the call and the move around the country for a coalition to challenge the re-election bid of President Bola Ahmed Tinubu in 2027, don’t you consider this as a challenge to your party returning to power in 2027?
I have told you that historically no alliance has worked in the country, what we also did in APC was a fusion with other partners, so if the so-called opposition in less than two years to D-day is just waking up to form a coalition, they have failed before they even started because birds of same feathers flock together, it is a coalition of bed of strange fellows that will be singing discordant tunes, so with the help of God and support of Nigerians, I don’t foresee anything running contrary to the second term bid of President Tinubu..
What’s your take on the two-year administration of President Tinubu?
The two years of President Tinubu in power could be likened to a medical doctor who wants to take care of a patient with a chronic disease. The doctor will have to carry out the diagnosis and even prognosis to determine the growth pattern of the disease. It is then they can say this is what we are using to care for the patients, it could be medication and sometimes it could be surgery. For the first two years, President Tinubu has taken some critical decisions, he is applying critical solutions to a devastating existing problem. He never created the problem, we all met it there and one way or the other, and we have also encouraged the further deterioration of this system. However, to get this problem resolved, he has courageously taken some painful decisions which some critics have dubbed insensitive but we are talking of a stitch in time that is saving nine. If he has not taken those steps: the subsidy removal, the alignment of naira with dollars and recently the review of the agreement with the electricity generation and distribution. He has equally declared an emergency on food security with the revitalisation of the 12 River Basin Development Authorities that has been lying fallow since its creation in 1980. He has also to a large extent worked so tirelessly to reduce the frequent farmer/herder clash with the creation of the Ministry of Livestock. So, why can’t we be patient like the farmer who will wait for the seed planted to decay and from the rottenness the sprouting comes out, first piercing through the soil and from there you have the mustard seed becoming the giant oak? When the doctor does their surgical operations, the pain is always there but within the space of time the healing sets in and the pains gradually disappear. So, largely the President is on track and when you compare and contrast with others on the horizon, I don’t know of anyone who is better prepared to shoulder the heavy responsibilities on the ground than President Tinubu. So, rather than confusing or misleading the people, those making noise should rather wait to join the President on the field in 2027 to test their popularity and acceptance.
Recently, Prof Pat Utomi came up with the idea of a shadow government…
(Cuts in) What will a shadow government do? A shadow government that doesn’t have insight into what is on the ground, will only be groping in the darkness. How much of what goes on in the ministries do you and I know? You can’t prescribe solutions to problems that you’re not aware of…and if they claim to have the solution while waiting in the corridor, let them also throw in their hats and contest the election to implement their idea but other things aside from this is wishful thinking, they will just continue to run away from their shadow.
What’s your take on the government of Governor Dapo Abiodun so far?
The governor is doing his best to make life much more comfortable for the people. He is building schools and roads here and there, and the airport project is almost at the finishing stage, yes he is doing so much but it can also get better, there is always room for improvement.
What areas do you think the governor should improve on?
The area of potable water supply is very key, it will also be good to see how the potential of the Ogun-Osun River Basin could be harnessed to ease this challenge. For instance, we have a giant water work at Apoje in Ijebu Igbo that can serve about three local governments of Ijebu North, Ijebu Ode and Odogbolu, we shall be glad if the waterworks are put back to work for the good of all. There is also a need to do so much more in terms of supporting the farmers in real-time. The need to help with agricultural mechanisation is there, the people will appreciate it if they can have their land cleared at a highly subsidised cost.
What do you think President Tinubu can do to ease the pains occasioned by these reforms?
The common man is well aware that with increased productivity whether in food production or any other area, the law of demand and supply will naturally crash the price but are the people working? Are the people on the farm and if they are not there why? It still boils down to the perennial problem of neglect of our rural roads, inadequate mechanisation, inadequate inputs for agricultural practices and provision of necessary support and infrastructure that will keep our young ones at home. The young ones have fled to the cities even when they knew that there was no job waiting for them. So, any inducement beyond dashing their money to go back home and work will help a lot. For the past 35 years, I have been at Ijebu Igbo earning my living from agriculture and I am contended with what God has done for me. Sharpening the country’s agricultural loan and insurance scheme will also help those who are seriously minded to go into farming and sustain the existing farmers. The prevailing interest rate of about 40% from money deposit banks cannot help the situation for anyone to say he wants to procure a loan to farm. As much as I am calling for more support, and more investment in agriculture, I am also calling for efficient management of these investments. People cannot sit down in Abuja and know what is happening in Ibadan, Sokoto, and Enugu without effective supervision, so those in charge of our policy formulation and implementation should look into this area.
The issue of state creation is on the front burner but Ijebus and Remos are not on the same page, both have claimed to have submitted two different positions on the issue. Remo is asking for a state with capital in Sagamu while the Ijebus are asking for an Ijebu State with capital in Ijebu-Ode. What’s your take on this?
There’s no harm in anybody having ambition, there is no harm in wanting everything for yourself, and there’s no harm in struggling to ensure that what belongs to 10 people is your own. As I have said earlier, the erosion will always try hard to pull your property down but it is the owner of the property that will also refuse to be careless and stand his ground to avert the danger. So there is no problem whatsoever if A says it is also interested in what B want. When it is the time before God those who are in charge will take an unbiased assessment of the situation and decide for both sides. They have been creating states since the days of General Yakub Gowon, consultation will be made, and everyone will have their say as well as individuals and groups but the final decision is that of the government of the day. So, let’s just wait for the time to come, thank God both sides agreed that they were together as an Ijebu Province and from time immemorial the headquarters had been Ijebu Ode. Is there any disagreement here? No, there has been none. But if there is now a new justification to shift the headquarters, then you will have to justify it and those in charge will have to decide what is right and appropriate. The God that makes each community to be where they are is not at fault, He knows what He is doing. So, if someone is not happy that his or her neighbour is A B or C, maybe the person may look or improvise a way to move his or her building far away to another place but if that is impossible to lift your building, say a two storey building, then we should take it as the will of God and we have to learn to live with it. It still bothers on understanding, patience and love for one another believing that if something favours me today, it could be your turn tomorrow.
The agitation for Ogun West to produce the next governor of the state for the very first time in 2027 is gathering momentum. How do you consider this agitation sir?
It is unnecessary. Since the creation of this state in 1976 and the advent of using electoral processes to elect our leaders, there has been no division that has never participated in getting this done, they have all asked for the gubernatorial tickets in all the parties be it Yewa, Egba, Ijebu or Remo. The people from Ogun West too have equally tried but then it is a game of number. If it is their strategy that has not worked, then they may have to re-strategise to get it right because they have the right to aspire and this they have always done, they have always aspired.
Are you saying that the governorship should be ceded to Ogun West and that the sympathy should indeed be in their favour to produce the next occupant of Oke-Mosan come 2027?
We are not working on sympathy, we are working on what will be the best for the future of the entirety of the people of Ogun State and when the people see a capable hand, they will identify that person and go for the person irrespective of where such comes from, only the best is good for us in the state. If it is only the best that is good for us, then the issue of turn by turn does not arise here. If turn by turn favours anyone, it means there must be other factors, not solely the issue of turn by turn. The people of Remo with three local governments have occupied the governorship seat almost in quick succession but for Ogun Central that served between 2011 and 2019 after which we have the current governor, Prince Dapo Abiodun, from Remo. As big as Ijebu is with six local governments, we have only tasted it for four years and that was Late Chief Bisi Onabanjo. The Egbas have tasted it thrice if we reckon with the first time Chief Segun Osoba was first elected before coming back between 1999 and 2003. The legal people will say that what was obtainable yesterday may not be today if the situation changes. If the situation changes and you want to continue to do what you have always done, you will fail, so you just have to change with time.
Does that mean you are not an apostle of turn-by-turn?
I am not against it, neither am I for it. It is a collective decision, if the majority feels that that is the right way then who am I to say no? I have said that everyone has the right to aspire. I have also said that there was never a time we had an election that all the parts of the four divisions in the state did not participate, so if they lost for whatever reason, blaming another part of the state does not come in. Let them just go and re-strategise to get it right this time around or next time around.
What do you think should be the focus of President Bola Tinubu for the next two years when his first tenure will come to an end?
The President should focus on finishing the race well, yes they can politicise some things but like I said, the President’s focus should be on the delivery of many more dividends of democracy to the common man, it is that delivery that will always endear him to the mind of the people. And the President is already doing exceptionally well. The Lagos/Calabar Road is going on steadily, even though many critics have dubbed it a misplaced priority. That’s their perception, by the time it is completed and they begin to enjoy the road, they won’t say it is a misplaced priority. If the road is not passing your backyard, you may think that it is a misplaced priority but sincerely it is not. Rome was not built in a day, the gradual development must continue. I am also waiting for the President to review the agreement entered into with the electricity generation and distribution companies. We know that they concocted that agreement to favour these DisCos and GenCos but there is nothing that is not reviewable, so let Mr President go ahead and get this good job done. What the people are clamouring for is regular electricity supply, so how that will be done is left for Mr President and those at the helms of affairs to sort out.
Some have also predicted an implosion for the ruling party with the way many people are scrambling to join the party, what’s your take on this?
It is wishful thinking of the opposition, after all, no one dragged these people into the party, they joined out of their own volition, so it is cheap talk, I don’t foresee any implosion at all.
As a former member of the National Assembly, what is your call to the legislature in the country? They are often described as rubber-stamped lawmakers who have since abandoned their checks and balances roles in curbing the excesses of the executives.
For God’s sake, checks and balances? We haven’t reached that level that you may want to castigate them. If for whatever reason what the executive is doing is harmonious with their function, if you call them rubber-stamped or even stoned-stamped they will do their job and go. It is like a barrack, soldiers go, soldiers come but barracks remain. Just as it is for the executive, let the legislature also be focused and driven by what will benefit the people. There are so many of our outdated extant laws that should be repealed and re-enacted. Constitutional review is another task that the National Assembly should equally focus on; our laws should be such that conform with what goes on in the international realm. In addition to this, the judiciary that the constitution has given the power to interpret the law and arbitrate among the three arms of government is also not being tested. So where there are naughty issues, rather than making noise and shouting, go straight to the court to challenge such situations and by having correct interpretation we shall be moving gradually towards a wholesome or near a wholesome constitution.
